Jim Murphy and Keri Laine Interview
Setting your own bar high and getting over it. Keri Laine, founder of Keri Laine Executive Solutions interviews Jim Murphy, Founder & Chairman of Afterburner, Former F-15 Instructor Pilot, USAF
Transcript
Thank you, Jim, for joining us on The INRoads Podcast. Our purpose and mission in having these conversations is to get to the heart and the core of who you are. And that is brought you to what you do, right? And so we're going to talk about what you do. And I'm going to ask you in a moment what that is, then I want to really make sure that the conversation carries into the character of your being and your virtues and your values. And that will lead to how you got there. So tell us about you.
Jim Murphy:First and foremost, I'm a dad, and enjoy doing that immensely right now. The father of two grade boys, 12-year-old and a nine-year-old Lucas and Nicholas. So I'll just stop right there.
Keri Laine:That's it, game over. We're done, great kids. We're out.
Jim Murphy:But, you know, I think what I really consider, what I do right now is I help individuals, teams, and organizations accelerate performance through the framework that we call flawless execution, through Afterburner, which is a company I founded 27 years ago. And it's a team of consultants, speakers, and trainers made up of former elite military professionals, like fighter pilots, Navy SEALs, that teach this framework that helps companies stay at the same rate of change, or slightly ahead, or the rate of change in chaotic situations, help companies plan and execute their can fail missions, if you will.
Keri Laine:Okay, now, what, how did you come to that?
Jim Murphy:Well, I was a fighter pilot in the Air Force. So, it was an F-15 pilots. So, I went from farmboy to fighter pilot in a very short amount of time, literally, I was like most fighter pilots, I was a, an average guy, so to speak, and went through this framework that the Air Force put me through. And in a very short amount of time, I was flying one of the most sophisticated jets on the, on the planet. And I was uniquely struck by that. Because before I got into the Air Force, I was an athlete in college, I was a baseball player, scholarship athlete at the University of Kentucky, wanted to become a professional athlete that didn't work out. And I went to work in corporate America for about a year and a half. So I got a little bit of business think on me. And then when I got into the Air Force, I thought it was unbelievable that I could go from not knowing anything about flying to being an F-15 pilot in 16 months. So, I vowed on that day, when I soloed the F-15. At Luke Air Force Base, that I was going to figure out how they took a farm boy to a fighter pilot through this process, because I knew that if I could figure out those simple frameworks and apply it to business, or, you know, or athletes---
Keri Laine:Yeah.
Jim Murphy:They could perform better.
Keri Laine:So, you said twice in that description in the shortest time, that seemed to be surprising to you? Or was it a mark of some kind of expectation that either far exceeded? Or where where does it come from that you feel like that's so notable?
Jim Murphy:Well, it definitely surprised me. And I think it surprised a lot of the folks that have gone through those same, that same crucible, if you will, I think if you were to talk to a special operator, or maybe a seal or another fighter pilot, they were probably somewhat amazed that how quickly they went through the pipeline, if you will, and then came out on the other side, a changed person, and a person that had a lot more responsibility, were executing at a very high level, with an enormous amount of not only pride and a spree decor, for their fellow troops or Airmen, but for the outcome of the mission. And for me, that was really, really cool and unique. And I knew, in a way it was lightning in a bottle. If I could figure out a way to create a process or a formula and be able to release that into the world, if you will. I knew it would have a profound effect on a lot of people and it has.
Keri Laine:So, when you were this farm boy, did you think that that would be exactly what you accomplished putting it lightning into a bottle and creating this Afterburner company?
Jim Murphy:I don't know. I was just hoping to be a fighter pilot.
Keri Laine:So, take me back to. Take me back to the farm days. So, we look at the leadership characteristics and often wonder, are they nature versus nurture? And which parts of our journey align and affirm or challenge those? So, what parts of you being that same person that you were on the farm carried through all the way to where you're at today with Afterburner? What number one, what would those characteristics be? And number two, do you think they're nature or nurture?
Jim Murphy:I think they're two. I think one is pursuit.
Keri Laine:Okay.
Jim Murphy:I knew that I was built from a young man to pursue things. So, if you look at everything that I enjoyed doing, professionally and recreationally, it's pursuing something, and you know, I'm a fisherman, I like to hunt. I've I was an athlete as a fighter pilot, so it was always about pursuing actively chasing a goal. And usually it was a fairly moving target, if you will. So that's one aspect. The other aspect to me is, being an instructor, I'm not a teacher, an instructor, the way I look at it is I think there's a big difference between instructors and teachers. Instructors are people that do exactly how to do something, and they are now instructing other people. So they were very proficient. So I was an instructor as a fighter pilot. First, I was a really good fighter pilot, and then I became an instructor. Where teaching and you probably had many teachers, you wondered if the teacher could really perform it, they really had to. So, for me, those were the two variables that are the two common characteristics, I think, that have gotten to me to where I am today.
Keri Laine:Okay. Okay, if you were to take that, and let's expand on it a little bit, let's say you're driving this car, you have your GPS, or GPS is essentially your map. All of us have an internal GPS that helps guide us and tell us if we're taking the terms the right way. Or maybe left who knows.
Jim Murphy:Keri, are you trying to explain to me what a GPS is?
Keri Laine:No, I'm trying to dig into your internal compass.
Jim Murphy:I did say I was a fighter pilot, right?
Keri Laine:Yeah, that's true. That's true. But this is where we're digging deep, because we're not following. We're not following anything external. If you were to look at the internal side of the ethics, morals and values, and you add the pursuit that you talked about, and the instructor capabilities that you talked about, there has to be some kind of ethical and moral compass that exists within you as well, you have to make a lot of tough decisions on what's right or what's wrong. And in every single one of your parts of your journey, where tell me about a time where that's been tested, and you have had those types of morals challenged and what you did to overcome that?
Jim Murphy:Well, first, where does that strength of having principles, guardrails and guidelines, I think they were laid down in meet just by my mom and dad, I mean, you know, I would say that my best friends throughout my life have been my mom and dad, I mean, they, they, they were just instrumental in aligning me as a young man and my sisters, you know, having a strong mother and father present in your life, I think was really important to me, I get challenged on every turn around principles and morals, and I think our children are today as well. So, I think really having a clear what we call it after an ACD High-Definition destination, and that is understanding your future in great detail. And I'm a huge believer that you can't predict the future, but you can design the one that you want. And the more detail and the more resolution you have on that dream or that finished product, if you will, the more compelling it becomes. And once you understand that, then the principles and guidelines that were set down from for me for my mom and dad are the guardrails that kept me in the middle of pursuing any of those things that I was pursuing in life, so.
Keri Laine:So, designing your high-definition destination, as you said, some might think that that leads to a set of expectations that ultimately may make you feel like failure if you don't, if you don't reach it, because roadblocks happen, you get flat tires, detours occur, it's not always what that high-definition destination may have looked like or what you had thought it would be. So, how, where's that happened for you in life? And how have you handled that?
Jim Murphy:For me, I've always set high-definition destinations that were they were pretty big mountains to climb. So I already knew that, you know, there's never a direct line to the HDD. There's going to be detours, there's going to be setbacks. You know, and that's, I think, part of, you know, setting HDDs that are truly compelling. So for me, they were can't fail HDDs, meaning I wanted to become a fighter pilot, because I expected that I was going to do something that not everybody could do in life. And I didn't want to go back to Kentucky and necessarily do maybe what my dad did, or maybe what other folks were doing, you know. So, for me, going home was not an option. Once I decided to set sail on this path to becoming a fighter pilot. I knew it was going to be tough. So, if I look at other things, like starting a business, or even some of the things I do as a hobby, you know, we set the bar pretty high. And but the expectation is that you'll get there but the expectation is it's never a straight line. It's not easy. It's easy. It's not compelling for me, and not very, it's not something that's going to be all encompassing, because the harder the goal, I think the harder the outcome, the more all encompassing the pursuit becomes. That makes sense.
Keri Laine:And that narrows back down to the fact that you are a person that likes pursuit. So that feeds you in an intrinsic way.
Jim Murphy:That's right.
Keri Laine:So picture back to this road that you're driving on, it's nighttime, you have headlights on, you can only see 200 feet in front of you. And there's just a world of darkness and unknown. How do you deal with ambiguity and uncertainty? And how, when you're in that situation, does it make you feel?
Jim Murphy:Well, what I would immediately do, if I thought I was going to have that situation where the Ford projection of my headlights was only 200 feet, I would invest in better ones, so I could see further. And then I would also widen my field of view and create some lights on either side of the car. So, I have Azmuth, either way.
Keri Laine:See, we try to control the outcome a little bit more make it a little more clear.
Jim Murphy:No, no, it's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, I would want to know as much about my external environment as possible, and bring as much illumination to bear as possible, before I started driving faster.
Keri Laine:Okay.
Jim Murphy:Because the length of my focal point would determine my velocity of pursuit,
Keri Laine:Okay, it still doesn't stop all of the change and ambiguity that could exist around you. So, if you came across something unexpected, how do you handle that?
Jim Murphy:After I said, a couple of four letter words, I would apply brakes to maximum extent possible and hope my anti like breakings work. If not, I would use my cat like reflexes to do an evasive maneuver to miss the deer and not hit the guardrail and go over the cliff.
Keri Laine:So.
Jim Murphy:Because, I had already done my studies, and I had already known that was the outside environment, so I can't turn right, I'm gonna have to turn left. I might have to hit the deer.
Keri Laine:If I'm hearing what you're saying. You're saying preparation is the key to success. And then whatever happens after that, you just gotta go with it. As long as you're preparing, you have all your data in your information. Some things just happen.
Jim Murphy:I, you know, I don't know if I'm gonna go that far to agree with that statement. But I think you're on the right track.
Keri Laine:Well then, what would you what change it to how you would agree?
Jim Murphy:Based on people that have been in those situations before, and their debriefs, and the lessons learned from those thereafter would pre-disposed me on how I'm going to react when that happens.
Keri Laine:Okay.
Jim Murphy:So I'm gonna go with that.
Keri Laine:Okay. Okay. See, that's better. That's your answer. It's one thing that I think we all face, there's a lot of people that go into something new, and they are very uncomfortable with it, because they have never been where they've been before. And that seems like a statement of obviousness. But ultimately, that's where a lot of the internal anxiety comes from. And people start to question themselves, and that's where the fear of failure starts to come in. So, based on your record, in your background, it seems like you fear nothing. Right? So, there has to be those some kind of point where you felt afraid, and you had to overcome that, so.
Jim Murphy:Yeah, I mean, I think it's, that sounds contrived to say you fear nothing. I think, you know, before you start on your pursuit, you want to be confident in that inertia, if you will. And that's based on the planning and research that you do. But it's also based on people that have gone there before. So, are you open to bringing in other lessons learn before you start on your path.
Keri Laine:Keeping your perceptions open and taking input and data to make sure your decisions are on point? Learning and being agile? So, that could be another way of looking at it. I like that. I like that. We're you gonna say something?
Jim Murphy:No, I can't wait for the next question.
Keri Laine:This is gotta be the weirdest, funniest scene all day.
Jim Murphy:200 feet headlight black all around. Okay, keep going.
Keri Laine:You gotta follow the analogies.
Jim Murphy:Yeah.
Keri Laine:It's only the analogies. It's where we're going with that.
Jim Murphy:You should just do a show instead of doing an interview.
Keri Laine:Really the mini series, it's not really a podcast. It's a mini series.
Jim Murphy:Okay.
Keri Laine:Anyway.
Jim Murphy:All right.
Keri Laine:Okay, so.
Jim Murphy:So, when do I cry?
Keri Laine:Now we've talked, well, I can't cry. You can't cry if you talk about all the mechanics of how headlights work. So dead. But that's the point we got to get you underneath the headlights, we got to get you into the under the hood of the engine. Some points. You've had breakdowns, and you've had to have a tow truck come help you in that vein, who has helped you along the way?
Jim Murphy:Well, I think my faith in God has especially been important in the last several years. I think when I was younger, I don't know if I necessarily leaned on that too much. But as I get older, that voice is much clearer. It's hard to define, it's hard to put your finger on. And then certainly my peer group family members, but I think almost more than anything. It's my ability to look at some of the things that I've done in my life in the past. In just looking at patterns, I can now start clearly seeing certain patterns that drive certain outcomes. So, for me right now, it's to get quiet and look back and start looking at some of those patents. And the other thing is pretty unique about the life I've lived too is, you know, as a mentor as an instructor in you know, if you look at what I've done over the last, you know, 25 plus years at Afterburner, I get a unique perspective on what's working and not working for other business leaders and entrepreneurs and athletes. So, you know, finding those patterns, start to really start drive you into areas that give you confidence to move forward.
Keri Laine:How would you define success?
Jim Murphy:I hope that I can't ever define it. Because if I do, I might have found it. And then there's nothing left.
Keri Laine:And there's no more pursuit.
Jim Murphy:That's right. So, I hope that I never can quite define success.
Keri Laine:So, where do you find your fulfillment along the way?
Jim Murphy:In the pursuit of being successful? Does the road determine the speed at which you go around a corner? Or is it the vehicle that you're in?
Keri Laine:Both.
Jim Murphy:Or is it your ability to push the vehicle to the ragged edge. Is it the road or the vehicle?
Keri Laine:I would argue both? I would ask you though, which of those are you? Are you the road? The vehicle or the ragged edge?
Jim Murphy:Oh, definitely not the road? Definitely not the vehicle. I'm definitely driving the vehicle. But I'm asking you what's more important, the road or the vehicle?
Keri Laine:Both.
Jim Murphy:Okay.
Keri Laine:Does it have to be an either or? It's an anti-answer. I'm picking both.
Jim Murphy:Okay. So, let's talk about a truck versus a Ferrari going around the corner.
Keri Laine:You have to just control it differently.
Jim Murphy:Okay.
Keri Laine:And be mindful of that, right? You can't flip this on me?
Jim Murphy:Oh.
Keri Laine:I'm asking the question.
Jim Murphy:Okay. I'm just, I just thought it'd be an interesting road analogy.
Keri Laine:The road is important, but you can drive on any surface, does it have to be a certain kind of road? Right?
Jim Murphy:Well, is the surface flat or is it banked? We're talking about cornering right now.
Keri Laine:I don't know.
Jim Murphy:Which one would you prefer to go around, the bank corner or a flat one?
Keri Laine:He's, he's thinking we've absolutely lost our mind.
Jim Murphy:But if we could tie this back to some kind of.
Keri Laine:So, Jim.
Jim Murphy:Yes, ma'am.
Keri Laine:If you were taking a corner in a Ferrari, what is more important, the road or the car?
Jim Murphy:I think the road plays a big part in it. If you can pick the road, because we already know the Ferrari and a lot of people know me I, you know, I'm gonna push the car as hard as I can, right? But the road determines the capability of both your driving and the car itself. So, if the turn is banked, I know I'm going to be able to get a lot more performance out of both versus a flat.
Keri Laine:What if you can't pick?
Jim Murphy:Yeah, that's the thing, then you're gonna have to adjust.
Keri Laine:You just have to go with it.
Jim Murphy:Yeah.
Keri Laine:That makes sense. Okay, so, at the end of your journey, all roads lead to home.
Jim Murphy:Okay.
Keri Laine:The end of your journey, you're looking back in the rearview mirror? How do you know that you would have lived this life well?
Jim Murphy:That I died relaxed, and the people and my family members that continue whatever legacy that I'm leaving have positive and lasting effects. Due to some of the things that I invested in when I was alive.
Keri Laine:How will you know that? What will you see? When you look back?
Jim Murphy:If I'm relaxed when I die, I will know that I had created legacy. If I'm uneasy, I know probably didn't do a great job. So, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The top of the pyramid is self-actualization, isn't it? I heard a one star general told me this one time when I flew him up to DC after our mission, and were at the bar talking. And he said, You know what? Maslow when he died on his deathbed, turned to his son with his last breath, and said, "Excuse me," he said, "Son, I got this wrong. It's not self-actualization. It's a legacy. And I'm so glad you're here. And I'm so glad I had you as a son," and he died. So, there you go.
Keri Laine:Wow. How's that for profound?
Jim Murphy:That's it.
Keri Laine:It's pretty significant.
Jim Murphy:Kind of agree with that.
Keri Laine:Yeah me too. If you were to give the people listening to this, who are in awe of your background and all of your technical facts dropping related to headlights---
Jim Murphy:Well, hopefully they aren't. But it's not of anything, but 'cause I'm certainly not, but, I'm trying really hard.
Keri Laine:What was your parting words of advice be on anything?
Jim Murphy:Wow. I don't think that I could give any advice that all of us haven't heard over and over and over again, but, certainly, it's be curious and passionate about your pursuit, and never quit pursuing. Always have purpose in your life.
Keri Laine:Thank you for being with us.
Jim Murphy:Thank you, Keri.
Keri Laine:It's been a pleasure having you.
Jim Murphy:It has been a very fast road. Thank you.
